>> well, i'm referring to rebekah brooks. i'm referring to james murdoch, the obviously has suffered an enormous loss of credibility. >> is part of the problem here the way in which rupert murdoch runs what is a public company as it were a private system? >> well, i think that is the question that is coming up in this country more and more, that this is an issue of governance. and that's a question that will have to go to the board. and we now have a situation, of course, where the murdoch's, people named murdoch are not accountable in conventional ways. and we have a situation in which people named murdoch are suffering a hemorrhage of credibility. you know, and i think that they are reasonably at the point where this hemorrhage has been so great that you have to ask, are these people who ought to be running a great public company. >> he's a pretty old man now. looked one years down the road. is this going to be a company, do you think, controlled by a murdoch? >> you know, i would say, you know, a matter of months down the